A nearly continual Boomer/Millennial conversation, mostly in my head...
Talking across the fence: politics, markets, and the culture at heart
The French isolate these people in the suburbs, treat them like dirt, refuse to hire them legally, tell them that they're (at best) second class citizens, the police rarely patrol their streets, and then they legally attack their religion by attempting to ban the burqa and men's beards... Forgive me if I'm not surprised that these people ban together and hire private security. France's concept of nation and national identity have made absolutely ill-prepared for this situation.
Well, yes I agree.I remember when I was a student there they treated the Algerians terribly.But. Who are the bullies now?As you say, they are ill-prepared. I think praying in the streets is over the top. No other religion can do that in our cities. Blocking public access.It is bullying.I understand this is happening in NYC too, though I haven't seen it.If the aim is Sharia that is very, very disturbing. This behavior seems to confirm that since it is not respectful of others.
Bullying? I don't know about that. Maybe. But this does bring up an interesting question separate from the issue-- I mean, is "bullying" not a part of the nature of protesting? One could say that MLK bullied Americans into getting off the fence regarding racial segregation-- I mean most Americans had wanted to just ignore the situation and had done so for decades. One could say that Ghandi bullied the British into pulling out of India. The French backed these people into a corner. How would you expect them to respond? Asking who are the bullies now is sort of meaningless really. It doesn't address the nature of the problem, nor its source. The problem exists now in France and deciding who are the "good guys" or "victims" or whatever isn't going to help nor solve anything. Of course the French are doing that, but it doesn't matter. The only palatable solution there (and in Europe) is assimilation.But the French don't want them as a part of their country/culture and also realize that their culture would change in many ways should they allow assimilation. It's an ugly situation, and it's only going to get uglier. I don't know about Sharia. It seems to be only an aspect and goal of certain sects of Islam, but it's become everyone's goto bogeyman. Islam isn't a unified religion, yet many people are portraying this as a simple binary opposition West vs. Islam. Has the Right suddenly adopted Hegel's theories? Say it isn't so. I can't just be a culture carrier now...
The police don't patrol the suburb streets because they are not welcome. Firemen are attacked.The dominant Islam is Sharia these days. Sharia is cruel beyond our imagining--and they don't want to just govern themselves with Sharia--they want to govern us against our will.It is a theocracy of terror they seek.Unlike in the US, yes, it is true the French did not welcome the integration of these immigrants in society, even as they exploited their labor. Now they are paying the price for that too.The French welfare state last I checked had an unemployment rate of 20%. Among youth it's over 50% I believe, and most likely in these suburbs it's near total.
"The police don't patrol the suburb streets because they are not welcome. Firemen are attacked."Maybe. But I found it interesting that during the riots in France four years ago or so, that one of the main complaints of people living in those area was that the police didin't patrol enough. It seems to me that most people in those areas didn't want to be under the thumb of extremist bosses and thugs. Much in the same way that most in the people in the Black and Hispanic areas of L.A. (the city I'm most familiar with)don't like the gangs running the streets there. It doesn't mean that the solution is simple, but neither is the problem-- again not simple binary opposition.I'm a little unclear as to how Sharia Law is dominant in Islam. Dominant how?Do Malaysia, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, the U.A.E., Qatar, Morrocco, Pakistan, and other dominantly Muslim countries all incorporate Sharia Law as practiced in Iran? Are they theocracies? Is not Iran and Saudi Arabia more exceptions rather than the rules?Probably the unemployment rate in the Islamic areas are extraordinarily high on paper, but lower in reality. As you mentioned, the reason that many of the Muslims came to France (and Europe) in the first place was to work.
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